[nodel-discuss] nodel news mailing list july experiment proposal

[julie freeman]

Armin,

This is a discussion list. Discussion takes many turns. Sometimes it  
takes a provocation to get interesting.

> This was not to have a fundamental
> discussion about the definition of media art old and new (which is
> probably also long overdue but not my concern in the first place)
If it's overdue why not have it? Why shut down the dialogue? I didn't  
realise the discussion was about your concerns only. They are my  
concerns, and maybe others.

> Thus, after the great work that Lisa had already done in that  
> direction
> I felt that repeated calls for now sticking some design on the site  
> [...]
>
>  quickly plugging some flash-laden templates on to it
> to create a 'showcase' for some 'art' or the other,
Your assumption that the discussions posted are simply about dumping  
a design on the framework are wrong and to be honest, disrespectful.  
If the discussion had continued without being sabotaged interesting  
solutions and further ideas may have arisen.

In addition, I would imagine that everyone on this list understands  
what Node is about and has it's best interests at heart (repeating  
the ethos is patronising). Lisa and others are developing a great  
website and feedback is being requested, and given.

I believe that any feedback is relevant, and as this is a "communal,  
shared space for reciprocal exchanges" that should be allowed to happen.

I'm afraid that I find your attitude on this list aggressive and  
think that it is precisely this negative crap that shuts down openness.

Julie


>>
>>
> Hi Julie and all
>
> sorry, but 'technology and its aesthetic' was just too tempting. I did
> not try to give any definition of media art which would cover all
> practices. the main point that my little intervention was meant to
> highlight was about 'shared spaces for reciprocal exchanges'as opposed
> to 'technology and its aesthetic'. This was not to have a fundamental
> discussion about the definition of media art old and new (which is
> probably also long overdue but not my concern in the first place) but
> because this is a question which is relevant for the development of  
> the
> site.
>
> In my understanding, maybe I am wrong, please correct me, Node.L was
> initiated to create a season for media arts in london that was
> self-organised, somehow based on mutally agreed decisions making
> processes largely free of conventional hierarchies, decentralised and
> also 'open'. The website under development is supposed to, I think,
> express those values and also offer itself as a communication
> infrastructure which fosters those values and types of practices.  
> It is
> an 'architecture for participation', as Juha from Pixelache I think it
> was, termed such a thing a few years ago. The ways this 'architecture'
> allows communications to flow and interactions to happen is a
> non-trivial question, it goes far beyond designing a data base.
>
> Thus, after the great work that Lisa had already done in that  
> direction
> I felt that repeated calls for now sticking some design on the site
> would obfuscate some of the real issues at stake such as the  
> question of
> usage and purpose. I am very interested in good design or  
> aesthetics yet
> that also poses the question what is good design? After half a year of
> structural work now quickly plugging some flash-laden templates on  
> to it
> to create a 'showcase' for some 'art' or the other, is that really so
> desirable?  Good design would be integrated with the more structural
> 'design' decisions made by Lisa and those who support her work  
> following
> a form follows function approach. Such a design would probably need to
> grow out of the usage that is made of the site in a 'beta' type phase
> wth early adopters and not just glued on top of an existing structure.
> And it would probably need some close collaboration between design and
> information architecture
>
> so much for now, cheers
> armin
>
>
> -- 
> thenextlayer software, art, politics http://www.thenextlayer.org